Behavioral Mechanics: Advanced Theories in Human Motivation and Psychology- Jim Marshall #162

All right, Hello everyone, How's it going today? Today we have a very special guest, Jim Marshall, and today we will be having a conversation. So, Jim, how are you doing today? Great Good to see you. So you know, Jim, I was sort of looking at your content. You know, you have a pod match, you have, you know, a social media platform, of course, and you have a website. And when I was looking at your website, you know, I think it's called Septomics right.

Septomics, and from what I was understanding after kind of briefly glancing over the introduction, you clarified too that if anyone were to sort of read this type of book, this was not something that you could read while sipping on some coffee. This is something that you need to sit down with deep, in-depth study, and I think what it looks like to me is it looks like almost a unionization of sociology and psychology, which is really fascinating. And you kind of mentioned how these were not. These were almost in-character facts. These were not arbitrary things or not ideal. It's not a theory, it's something hard sort of set in stone, if you will. So can we begin kind of going in depth on what this is and maybe how you sort of again, you said you never invented it, but how did you become sort of that Christopher Columbus and that man who sort of discovered it?

Right, Okay, Well, I am the discoverer of hitherto unknown natural phenomena which greatly aid in the understanding of people, from which I constructed a revolutionary, practical philosophic system called Septemix and published it in the book Septemix Hierarchies of Human Phenomena. Septemix is a philosophical science based on the fact that many phenomena related to human beings occur in a sequence of seven levels. Literally, the word Septemix means, although pertaining to seven, Septemix comprises a collection of scales or sequences, each of which breaks down various human phenomena into a hierarchy of seven steps. There are 35 such scales, each of which is unique, and together they span the spectrum of human experience, by which I mean any problem, dilemma, situation, difficulty that any person has and successfully be analyzed by one or more of these scales. Now, since you asked, let me tell you how I found this information.

The story really starts when I was accepted into an engineering school at age 16. Of course, I thought at that time that I was going to be engineering physical things like electrons, airfoils, motors and so forth, according to other students. But by the time I had my bachelor's degree, I realized I wanted to engineer it to human psyche, because it's the area of greatest mystery and unknown and the area in which we as a race are failing miserably. Ninety-five percent of the problems that people have in industrialized society is because they don't understand. People don't understand, the wife don't understand, the husband don't understand, the boss don't understand, the president don't understand, etc. Etc. Etc. We're not dying of diseases and starvation like we used to. Our problems are because they don't understand people and this book solves that across 35 axes. So to make a long story short, I had a long career as a human development engineer, working one-on-one with hundreds of clients of every description for cumulatively many thousands of hours. And of course, all of my clients improved and I started to notice, just incidentally, that I could predict the outcome of the session. Now, I never told this to anyone, but I made notes and as the decades rolled by, it became clear to me that the client would be at a specific level, on a specific scale that I had previously observed, and as a result of our interaction, the client would go to the next level up. This verified my hypothesis thousands and thousands of times. Of course, this only made me better at what I did Now.

By 1995, a couple of things happened. One is I had about 32 scales by then, of varying lengths. And also one day in 1995, I was pondering a difficult client and I realized this client was at a level on a particular scale that I had not previously observed. That was obvious to me where to insert this level into the scale. So when I inserted that level into this six-level scale, which I already knew was correct, the scale manifested mathematically, which is to say, all of these data jumped out at me.

Now, the whole point of mathematics is you start with a formula or an equation and you coax data out of it. That is how Einstein found E equals mc squared. I had that process. So when I saw all this data, it went from being a seven-level scale to a whole plane of information. Well, I said, whoa, whatever this is, this has to be natural law, because it has mathematics embedded in it, and anything that has mathematics embedded in it is natural law, For example the Fibonacci sequence.

So then I said wait a minute, I wonder how many of these other scales that I have are actually seven-level scales that had not been developed all the way, because I wasn't developing anything, I was just helping my clients and making notes. So, knowing what I was looking for, I inspected all of these scales and in a short period of time they each went to seven levels and as each one did, it manifested mathematically. So it went from being a scale to a plane of data. So then I said wait a minute, this looks like a new subject to me. I could go from helping people by the hundreds, which is what it had been doing as human development engineer, to helping people by the millions. If I put this in a book, I can get it out to people.

So I'll have to write a book.

So the first draft of the book was completed in December of 95. And I sent it to colleagues of mine, all of whom had graduate degrees in a variety of subjects, and they all responded very positively. They had different responses, but distinctly positive responses that told me okay, this is exactly what I think. It is A whole new subject that could really help people. So I spent the next 25 years of my life writing this book. You just have to realize. First I had to discover the data, the phenomena, which I should have told you already how that was done, although I did find three more scales while I was writing the book. Then I had to use this data to craft a workable philosophic system. Now you have to understand as an engineer I'm only interested in facts and results. To engineering, opinions and beliefs are irrelevant. So simply having 32 scales or 35, whatever it was at a certain point in time, that's not enough to make a workable philosophic system.

So I had to work with this data to develop a foolproof system that would work for everybody, and that took 20 years. Then the most time consuming part of this was I had to express this in a way that would make sense to the average reader, because my intent from the beginning was to help the average person, and I can tell you right now I've been watching people respond to this for 28 years and what I know is that anybody who can read English reasonably well and wants to improve himself or others can benefit from this book. It's universally applicable, and the reason it's universally applicable is because it's natural law we have to understand. I took 26 semesters of math and loved every minute of it, so to me, math is a very real thing. So when I saw math embedded in this, I knew I had something big. The reason why this works so well is it's natural law. It's natural law just like Newton's Three Laws of Motion or the periodic table of elements. It's natural law. Once you see it, you get it. It's not hard to get this.

So people open up the book. We're talking about a new person. It looks that it says wow, yeah, I see this, and let me explain why that is. A couple of people said to me what book is your book like? And I have to tell them, having gone to school for 28 years, I honestly don't think there's ever been a book like this before. But each one of these scales is expressed in what you might call a table or a spreadsheet, so there's a whole body of data about the corresponding subject, so it's like a periodic table for each of these 35 subjects. Well, the periodic table is for matter, the elements. This is for these 35 subjects. Now, if you allow me, I'll tell you the names of the 35 scales and then you'll see exactly what subject matter is covered in this book.

Please, please.

Okay, so there are 24 individual scales, meaning they apply primarily to an individual, and 11 group scales, which apply primarily to groups. So these are the individual scales the scale of basic purposes, the scale of personal influence, the scale of choice, the scale of permeation, the scale of thought, the scale of identity, the scale of evaluation, the scale of motivation, the scale of control, the scale of stopping, the scale of scholarship, the scale of literacy, the scale of human ability, the scale of memory, the scale of spiritual identity, the scale of mental deletion, the scale of aberration, the scale of physical fitness, the scale of a justification, the scale of belief, the scale of equanimity, the scale of attack, the scale of conflict and the scale of reaction. And these are the group scales the scale of relationships, the scale of lif, jd, skiers, the scale of government, the scale of civilization, the the scale of survival, the scale of management, the scale of exchange, the scale of communication, the scale of allegiance, the scale of sexuality and the scale of politics. Now, you sort of suggested that this was kind of a mixing of sociology and psychology. There's some truth to that, but let me parse that a little bit further. This is a new subject, so this book is a textbook on an entire new subject.

Now I tried for years to fit this into some pre-existing niche. It cannot be done. So, for example, let's take psychology. There are elements of psychology in this. I know psychology. It's valuable and useful, but this is not psychology. For example, this has a scale of government, a scale of civilization, a scale of management, a scale of politics that doesn't exist in psychology. So there's all kinds of things. There is a scale of spiritual identity that doesn't exist in sociology. So this is a new subject and I have had a lifetime of helping people, went out of my way to write this in a way that works for people, and since the first transcript of it was released 28 years ago, I've been seeing people get this. They read it and they say, yeah, I get this. It's not obscure and it's not difficult to understand because it's natural law.

So, for example, about 22 years ago, when I was working on this, I'm talking to a friend of mine one day about politics and government. There's two guys talking and I had completed the scale of government. I said let me show you something. So I pulled out the scale of government, didn't even know I was writing a book and I handed it to him so he took it. I didn't say a word, took it. We looked at it for about one second and he pointed. He said there, I'm right there. He found his level on that scale without my even Suggesting that that's what it was for. He didn't know that. So this is really user-friendly.

I'll tell you something else that happens with this all the time. You guys reading a scale It'd be any scale, right me gets down to a certain level, like, let's say, level four. This is my mother-in-law. She's exactly like this. I Don't know this guy's mother-in-law, but the phenomena is there and it's specific and it's precise. So when you see, you say, oh yeah, this is how my brother, joe, is. He's just like this. So when you do that you're actually spotting him on a scale you say, yeah, he's at that level.

Well, let me tell you concisely how this benefits people. I've been helping people my whole life. I Wrote this to help people. Each of these 35 scales provides the user with an infallible way of determining the Salutariness or Beneficialness of any group, individual or activity. If the group, individual or activity moves persons up the scale, it's beneficial or positive. If it moves them down, it's detrimental or negative. So I'm giving you a yardstick by which to measure human activity, which is very useful. More importantly, just finding out what level you or another person is at on any scale is, by itself, enlightening and beneficial.

Every time you correctly spot a level, you say, oh, now I understand why I can't get along with Joe. I'm at this level and he's at this level. We have an epiphany. That's how you know you found the right level. If you say this is the right level and you don't have an epiphany, it's not the right level. So this is really useful, because what's happening here is it requires a certain amount of insight to use this. But, more pointy, it develops insight because every time you use it you have a realization. So then you have more insight. So then your capacity to use the subject is improved. We use it again and you have another realization and you have more insight. So this is a Virtuous circle where the more you do this, easier it is to use it, and the easier it is to use it. The more you use it. The more you use it, it's easier to use. So you just get into this where it becomes really easy to understand people.

Well, let me give you an application, okay, a real world application how you could use this right now. Let's say you have a buddy when he's having romance problems, right, we have this friend, Fred, and he's complaining to you about his girlfriend. I don't know what I'm gonna do about Mary, she's driving me crazy. She wants to break up. He's going out with another guy, but right. So you say, okay, fred, look, let me help you with this.

Come here, look at this, and you open up the book to the scale of relationships. Now, he's gonna look at this. He's gonna say you mean, there's a scale of relationships. We say, yeah, this relationship that you've been complaining to me about for six months, where is it on this scale? He's going to want to know that because you just opened the door for him. Oh yeah, let me see.

So he looks at it and what's gonna happen is in the matter of seconds. He will find a bracket Meaning something like this will happen. We'll say, well, I can see right away. We definitely not at level one, two or three, because we're having a lot of trouble. See, so you got it down to four. So then you say to him okay, look, go ahead and read the text, and then you'll be able to get it exactly, so you can help them as a tutor with this. If he has any trouble, well, what does this mean? You can explain. And then he reads it and he comes back and he's okay, now look at it again. What level is this relationship that? And you will find it. We will say well, now that I read this, I can see what level five. No wonder we're having trouble. This explains it. We're all going to have a level five. See, I think it's a great.

You and she could move this up to level four because it's the next level up. See, because it's the next level up, it's accessible to you, you can reach it. If you're a level five and you try to get to levels one, two or three, you will fail because it's too steep a gradient. Right, you will be able to get to level four because it's the next level up. Just like you're on a train. We're at 34th Street train next stop is 42nd Street. You can get the 40th secretary because you're at 34th Street, see.

Hmm it's the next thing. Now we say to him all right, let me show you something else, and you open it up to the scale of sexuality. He says you mean there's a scale of sexuality? Yeah, you don't have to tell me, but for your own illumination, where are you on this scale? He's gonna want to know this. And he'll look at us, say Well, I can tell right away, it's definitely not six or seven, has nothing to do with me, and it's definitely not one or two of the way over my head, it's probably two to four. You say, great, go ahead and read the text, then you can tell us exactly.

So he reads it, he comes back and he'll be able to find it now, such are his friends. He might want to tell you, but the idea here is not to tell people, the idea is to figure it out yourself. So the little get on so well, I can see I'm on level four and you have a realization. Well, that explains why he didn't get along with Betty soon. She was a level five. That's not compatible. If you look at that scale, it's obvious at first blush that some of those levels are incompatible. I mean, there's one level cold and have sex, and there's another level cold. Can't have sex well duh.

Those are obviously incompatible. But it's not just those two, that's that. A whole scale is like that. So this is why sometimes you see two people. They're smart, retractive, they like one another and they can't have romantic relationship. It just doesn't work.

I'm very office, because there are different levels on this scale. These are the type of people who break up and stay friends for the rest of their lives. Is that like one another, see? So Then you can say, alright, let me show you something else. Look at the scale of allegiance. What's that? Don't look at it, okay. So he looks who says, oh yeah, allegiance, yeah.

And see, you could explain. Well, if you're going out with Mary and then you cheat on her and go out with Betty Sue, that's a failure of allegiance, isn't it? One behind her back. So you went down the scale. So I already know any time the relationship deteriorate, it's because Allegiance has deteriorated. So people look at this and say, by that same process, yeah, I am down at level four and you'll be able to see that he fell down to level 40. We could say, okay, let's improve you up to level three, for many relationship will be better Now. I could keep going like this and do another half-buzz and scales, because when you're talking about something complicated, like a Relationship between a man and a woman, that has many dimensions to it. But I think you get the idea. That's how this works.

So that's excellent, but let's sort of take a backtrack now. So who Jim? So what Harvard? Your initial love for things like math? What Drew in that math as a child? Who you love math as a kid. If you pick up on time staples very quickly like how was it like sort of growing up loving map, or did you ever love them?

Well, I, first of all, I always loved math, but that's not the answer to the question. I have no memory, james, of a time in my life when I was not Intensely interested in learning everything that's taught in every university I was. I Was a type of little kid when I was three year old. Three years old saying how does the, how does the radio to get hot? How does the car work? How does the refrigerator get cold? You know, how does how does the TV work? How do we get these pictures? I always wanted to know. You know, how does the voice get into this piece of plastic? You put on this plastic and we hear somebody singing. How does that happen? And that's just how I was.

I can still remember the exact moment when I first discovered that some kids didn't like school. It was a shock to me. I loved school, believe me, every morning. Yeah, I get to learn long division. Today, or whatever it was, I get to learn about Abraham Lincoln. I was in through From standing at the blackboard ten years old doing division on the board right, the kid I was working with was like Wilson teams, so it's something that suggests that you didn't like school. I said wait a minute. We don't like school. He said, no, I hate school. I'm shocked, how could that be? But then I said oh, that's a lot. There are kids who don't like school. I Didn't even know that. I Can still remember that because it was a turning point for me, because I realized I was different from other people.

So Nobody had to tell me to do my own work. I was one of those irritating kids who would not only did all the assignments, I would be the extra credit assignments too. So I love school, I won scholarships, I get into elite schools and I was an inherently polymathic person. So I wanted to know everything about everything. So, for example, study physics. We learned about the three laws of motion right, they're still being used today from 400 years ago, from Newton, a genius. So I said who's this? Fine, now I'm taking this out. When he was 25 years old, this must be a special. So I started studying Isaac Newton. See, we find out, this is a very interesting guy who is devout Catholic. He was into alchemy, he did all. He invented or discovered all kinds of interesting things.

So you see, now I'm reading biography, you see. So whatever I was studying, I always would want to go into the adjacent subject. So I'm studying history. I'm learning about Thomas Jefferson. What an interesting guy. He wrote the Declaration of Independence. He was a lawyer, he was a Gentleman farmer, you know. So I read a bio book, several biographies of Jefferson. Very interesting guy, brilliant. So you see, I'm not studying history now, I'm studying Jefferson. So with me that happens with everything, everything. So now you could imagine what Google means to me. I mean, when search engines came out, you know, you could just lock me in a room with food and a search engine and I would just be there looking up things, looking it up, finding out All about interesting things, interesting people you know like.

If you study Jefferson Lincoln in history, he's a very interesting guy. He did what was what impossible in his day. He freed the slaves and he saved the Union. Nobody thought that could be done. So Well, who is this guy? And you find out all kinds of interesting things. He had, at most, 12 months of schooling in his whole life and yet he became the best lawyer in the state of Illinois. And if you read his writings, which we have, they're brilliant. How did this happen? See, this is very interesting to me and I'm sort of like this with everything.

So I read the Aeneid. I was written by Virgil, a Contemporary of Cesar Augustus, one of the greatest works ever written. So I want to find who is this guy. Who is this Virgil guy? How did he do this? So if you read it, it's a 12 book epic poem and it's awesome. So then I want to find out about it. It, you know his name is a guy, is for Julius Morrow and he probably was gay and he was a friend of the Emperor. So you know, that's sort of how my mind works. I'm interested in everything.

So what happened was, because of my unusual career of working with people and my hard science background, when I saw this data I just wrote it down. That's what we do in science we write things down, we observe and we record, observe and record. Then, when I realized that first scale, that it was had mathematics embedded in us, and whoa, I found something here because I knew it was natural law, because I understand natural law, you know, like from an action sequence, there's all kinds of living creatures that have been constructing themselves according to Fibonacci numbers for millions of years, and they do a generation after generation. I don't have to take my word. Look at a sunflower. You count the seeds in one way. They go one Fibonacci number, count them another way. It's another Fibonacci number. How does that work? It's natural law, it just exists. They don't know anything about numbers, let alone Fibonacci. So that's what this is about. I found this natural law. And because it's natural law, anybody who can read English, who wants to improve from self or others, which I'm sure includes you. For my observation of you, that's this. They say, yeah, this is cool. Now, why do I say I've improved self or others?

So let's say, a guy gets this right and he uses it to straighten out his marriage Okay, that's helping himself, but it's also helping his wife, isn't it? And then he might see that their kid is having school trouble. He's having trouble as a student. Well, there's a scale of scholarship. He says junior, come over here, let me show you this. And junior looks at the scale of scholarship. You see, to me there's a scale of scholarship and that says, yeah, where are you on the scale? Junior's gonna want to know that. See, so find a bracket.

I'll say, well, I'm obviously not a one, two or three, because I'm not a good student. Okay, so read the chapter and then you can nail it Exactly. So a reason. It comes back and says well, I can see him at level five and Don't think he'll be bummed out by that. He will not, for we happy because he has a realization. He says ah, now I see what's going on, see. And so Then the dad says let's move you from level five to level four and then you'll be a better student. And I tell you in that chapter Exactly how to do that. So the dad helps the kid. The kid becomes a better student. Now, instead of getting C's and D's, he's getting B's and C's. So the dad did this without hiring a tutor, not spending any money. We're not sending the kid out to any extra classes, it's just the two of them. That's how this book is.

I went out of my way to write this book in a way that would help people without Resorting to anything else except perhaps a dictionary. But I would say that for every book in existence I Start at school when I was three and I've been involved in education to this very day I would never teach anything to anybody without having a dictionary. Andy, I don't care what subject it is. Now Some people say well, I'm a math major, I Don't need to addiction. Oh, really, what's the definition of absolute value? What's the definition of minus? What's the definition of variable? I Can tell you how many people I've done this to. And they go home. I'm a home and I'm like Jackie Griesen. Does you know? In the honeymooners? They don't know what to win. It's okay, let's look it up. And we look it up. Oh, I see, that's what a variable is.

Okay, so now read the chapter, read the sentence again. All right, now it makes sense to me, See. So that's one of my tricks as far as as a tutor helping people to understand things, because that's something that is not stressed in our education. There's a definite lack of stress on vocabulary and that's why people don't understand subject in all the words. Like we talked about emancipation, proclamation. How many students know what emancipation means? How many students know what proclamation means? I'm sorry, I'm getting something on my screen, so I Will. I'll say to students all the time what is the word emancipation means. If I don't get a correct answer in one second, I say okay, that's right, let's get up. Takes 10 seconds, read this. Oh, I see what it means freeing people. Oh, good, now I'll read it again. Oh, I see the proclamation that freed people. Okay.

So you have to realize there is not only a glossary in front of every chapter of this book, there's even a glossary in front of the introduction, because I want people to know what these words mean. And let me be more specific. There's a scale of communication. If you look up the word communication, depending on what dictionary you look it in, look at it it has about 30 definitions. So I could reasonably say well, what definition is this guy using? That's a good question. So I give one very specific, brief definition of communication Right out of the dictionary. It's not 30 definitions, it's one. So he reads it, says okay, I see what he means. Now he knows exactly what I'm talking about. So the book is full of that.

It's it's very, very user-friendly because, as with my experience as a tutor, I'm used to how to get people to understand things and so this is really a user-friendly book and the best way to think of it is each one of these 35 scales is like a lens, but you can hold up to a mirror and look at yourself. You know, like when you take a selfie in a mirror, you hope the somebody say, oh, now I see myself. Or you hold it up to your wife or your neighbor or your son, and then you see them clearly. It's like, you know, sherlock Holmes went around with a magnifying glass all the time looking at things. That's what this is like, but it's across 35 axes of human phenomena and because of that it's universally applicable.

So if you're talking about human phenomena, this book applies. Now, if you're talking about fixing the engine in your car, no, it's not, let them do it that. But if you're talking about human phenomena, which is more than just human behavior, like how do civilizations evolve, I explained that. What are the seven levels of spiritual identity? There are seven levels and when you look at it, you'll see yeah, I can see I'm here and Joe is here, and it really helps you to understand people, including yourself so you mentioned Virg and sort of this, this poem, do you think that?

well, what resonated you with you about that? And another thing that I find interesting, it worth understand along poetry, there needs to be a vivid understanding of vocabulary in some situations, because I would find myself reading poetry and I wouldn't understand the poem. It was more so, necessarily, that I wouldn't understand certain words that were great. Even when you know Greek, you know things like the Odyssey, you know there's certain terminology like Huber, you know I don't think most people know what Huber is.

The Greek word. Well, to answer your question about the Aeneid, I studied Latin for four years and I was very good at it, and in my fourth year I read the Aeneid. That was what we did in that year. We read the whole thing and you have to understand I was reading it in Latin. Okay, this is not a translation. I had translations of it which I would use for reference. You know, like if I want to say what's he really getting at here? You know, sometimes you could. It's hard to parse how the words fit together to make sense, so I would read the English passage. It's not the same thing. Reading something in translation is a good thing, but it's not the same thing.

I've read an enormous amount of foreign literature in translation German, french, spanish, italian, Russian, et cetera, in translation. I don't speak those languages, but Latin I know. So I read it and the beauty of it just came across to me. And it's really about this demigod named Aeneas who in a sense is like Hercules, same type here. His mother was Venus and his leading the people out of Troy who then eventually went to Italy and found it wrong. That's what the story is. That's one sentence reduced from a 12 volume poem.

But his interaction with the gods is a big thing, that's a major. He had one God who loved him and protected him, but there were other gods who didn't. So this gets into what's really going on in life. You see, what's this thing we call luck? Where does this come from? And so it really opened up my mind in a spiritual way that nothing else did, because it got me into that way of thinking the way the Romans thought about the gods. The gods intercedes.

Now it's not only the Romans. All kinds of religions think that the Romans were pantheistic, as opposed to Christians are a monotheistic, but still there's the idea of divine intervention. I mean, george Washington absolutely believed in that. And if you look at the facts of his life, how can you not believe that? His cloak would be full of bullet holes, his hat? He would ride out in front of the troops with the bullets flying, with his sword, saying fight, men, fight. And he didn't get hit. How does that happen? He said it's provident, that's the word he used. So there's something to that, regardless of what religion you're in. Now George Lucas came along with may the force be with you. Well, what's that all about, you see? And that's a lot of what that movie was about. You know, han Solo the cynic saying there's no one. Han Solo the cynic saying there's no force Right.

Yeah.

But then Luke gets into the ship and he hears the voice of the dead. Obi-wan Kenobi comes to him and says turn off your computer. He turns it off and he drops the bomb right down into the target, which is a mystical thing. He did it without the computer. So that's why that really had an impact on me and eventually I studied many of the world's religions, so theology is one of my main areas of expertise. But it's not just one religion, it's many religions, it's world religion, and I sort of got to the idea of sort of seeing how they had in common and how different cultures looked at the same thing in a slightly different way, which is not news.

Most people know that Chinese people think differently from American people. You know that's not news. So when you go around people from cultures, they approach things differently, so they'll look at the same thing and have different ways. You know, in English we say fork. Fork is a description of how the thing looks. In Spanish we say tenador, which means holder. It's a functional description. See, it's a different way of looking at the same implement. The Spanish call it a holder. So that's true with all language and when you read something in the original, you get the impact of what were these people really saying. You know, what was Virgil like? What did he really think? What were the Romans about as people, you know, because we started them kind of on a superficial level. There was this emperor and then this emperor and they fought this battle so many people. But there's a lot more to all of this and that's sort of who I am as a person. I always want to know what's going on here, what's underlying this.

You know like, for example, when Einstein figured out the theory of relativity, that was a moment of creative thought. Most scientists don't think that way. We had some epiphany where he was able to go beyond what anybody had done before and see this thing, and then he was able to explain it in a paper to other physicists and mathematicians. Now they didn't know and get it right away. That is a historical fact. It took a while but eventually experimental physicists proved it to be correct many times. So now it's considered reliable scientific fact. But when he thought it up it was just a creative moment in his mind. It's like when Chikuri would play the piano. You know, I saw him play many times. It's like he's just making it up as he's going along. I like watching art collapse and play a guitar, so he never played that solo before and he's never gonna play it again. This is a moment of creation. Okay, so that's something that's discussed in some of the skills. So that type of thing is very interesting to me, how that works.

You know why people do what they do and, more importantly, how do you improve a person? How do you take a guy who's got a bad relationship and fix it? And that's what this book is about, because, basically, once you know the correct level, you can improve yourself by going up to the next level, because one of the axioms of this subject is you can never skip a level. That is impossible. Think of it this way If you're on the first floor and you wanna go to the fifth floor one way or another, you're going to have to go through the second, the third and the fourth. Whether you take the elevator, the escalator, the stairs or go outside the building and use a rope ladder, we're still going through the second, the third and the fourth to get to the fifth. That is why you can only move to an adjacent level, and that is good news, because I'm giving you the gradients. See, most people have problems and don't know how to fix them. That's because they don't know the gradient.

So you'll have a guy let's say you have a guy who's 100 pounds overweight. He's upset about it, he's self-conscious about it, he can't fix it right. So I've worked as a trainer. If he came to me and said, jim, would you train me? I'd say sure, now I have to find a gradient for this guy. I'm not gonna say go out and run five miles every day.

First of all, he's not gonna do it. Secondly, if he did do it he would be soaring, he would be mad at me. That's not good training, that's malpractice. And I'm not gonna give him a 100-pound barbell and say lift. This same reason. I would say to him do you think you could walk one mile every morning? Right, and he's probably gonna say, well, I think I could do that. I might miss a day or two because I'm like, yeah, okay, good. So walk a mile every morning and I think the week will talk again. So when I say to him the end of the week, how did it go? And if he says to me this is tough, I say okay, just keep going, just keep doing it.

Now if he said to me this is easy, I got it, I could do this any time, I'd say, great, let's go to a mile and a half. So that's finding the gradient. That's what I did with my clients. I would pick up the level the guy was at and move him to the next level up, and that's how I discovered Septimax. I used Socratic Dialogues. If you've ever read the Dialogues the Socratic Dialogues written by Plato, there are many of them. Basically, the way Plato shows Socrates, his teacher, as working, is he would have a conversation with the guy who wouldn't tell him anything. He would say, well, what about this and what about this? Who do you think of this? How do you define this? And eventually the guy would come to his own realization. So, yeah, now I see what's going on here. That's Socratic Dialogues. That's what I used, but I was aided by biofeedback, which is where the engineering comes in and there's a lot to know about that if you don't know about it. So that's how I found this data. There's no theory of Septimax, it's just empirically observed. And that's why people dig it, because we look at it and they say, yeah, I see this. It's like looking at a periodic table Anybody who looks at the periodic table, like first day of chemistry class. You come in and you look at it and say, oh, this makes sense. You know you get it Because it's natural law. So the way I think of it is your success is my reward. That's how I operate. That's where I wrote this book. And there are people all over the world using this book. Now, I'm never going to know them. I don't even know their names. We're straightening out their relationships, straightening out their businesses. We're straightening out their relationships with their parents, whatever. That's what I want. That's where I wrote this book.

Okay, because if you think that the institutions of Earth are going to help you, you're going to be in for a rude awakening. The government's not going to help you. The churches are not going to help you. The universities are not going to help you. The schools are not going to help you. Corporations are not going to help you. Are there exceptions? Of course there are exceptions, but generally speaking, all of these things have their own agendas. They have corrupt people and do have good people. Yes, they have good people, but not all of them are good.

You know, I've noticed something with governments Sometimes you go to a government agency, right, and you want to get a paper or you want to file something, and the person is just not going to cooperate. You can see they have a bad day and they're not going to give you what you want. They give you some phony reason, right? You know what I do? I come back the next day, go to a different guy. Same paperwork goes right through Different guy. The first guy was not quite cooperative. The second guy, oh yeah, okay, here Stamped.

So that's true for everything. You know, there's good Christians, there's bad Christians. There's good white people, there's bad white people, there's good Chinese people. The whole world is like that. So if you go into any big group, I don't care what it is any university, any church, any government, at any level you're going to find good people, you're going to find bad people.

Now, the catastrophes coming out come about when you get a bad person in there, like Hitler running a government. You see what he did to his country. When you get somebody good in there, who knows what he's doing, like Abe Lincoln, you get good results. So, but you can't rely on any of these things because you don't know who you're going to run into. But I will tell you this if you use this book, you can spot these people because you can see, oh, this guy is low on the scale. See, you know, that's going to be trouble. When I run into somebody like that I just say thank you very much, have a nice day, goodbye, I don't deal with it. That's why I know that this book, if you study it, will prevent catastrophes, telemines, divorces, bankruptcies, fistfights, indictments, etc. Etc. Etc. Because you understand people. You understand the good ones and the bad ones.

Sometimes I meet a person and say, oh, this is a very upscale person. See, I can see their upscale on these various scales. Oh, this is someone I want in my life. So I go out of my way to keep that. And if I see this person is a little bit lower on some scales, I just sort of tiptoe around it. You know there's some people who are very nice people.

Just don't talk about politics, don't do it, it's a mistake. You know it's alright. So you tiptoe around it. You know I have three sisters. One of them is a liberal and two of them are conservatives. I get along great with all three of them. You know why. I don't make it an issue. I just go around it, and I pretty much do that with everything, and the book helps you with that. It helps you to see, to parse what's going on. Like you see a guy who's low on a certain scale, you're not going to be able to do much with that, because the reason that the person is low on the scale is because he lacks insight in that area, and the reason a person is high on a scale is because he has insight in that area. So when a person is low on a scale, he lacks insight, there's not much you're going to do about it. He's just dopey on that subject.

I'll give you a perfect example Bill Clinton. Everybody knows Bill Clinton as a smart man. He was a Rhodes Scholar Okay, even his opponents admit he was a smart man. And a shrewd politician Okay. He left office with a high approval rating, even though he was impeached. All right. He was smart enough to bring in Dick Morris, a very shrewd political analyst, to consult with him, and he was smart enough to listen to Morris and he was able to get reelected because of Morris. So we're talking about a smart man here.

If I wanted to discuss politics, I would love to talk to him. However, everybody knows that Bill Clinton is a serial abuser of women. This is no secret. He got sued by a lot of women. He had women come out and say on video that he raped them with specificity on this state, at this place. So if I had a daughter or a sister, I would say to them don't go out with Bill Clinton. See, that's a different thing, it's a different axis. Now I love to listen to him talk about politics and government.

The man is smart. If you watch him, he'll get a question he really thinks about and he gives you an insightful answer. You know, it's not like you ask Biden a question. He goes blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. See, you'll get anything insightful from him. The best you're going to get is what he was told to say. They're both from the same political party. You see, this has nothing to do with politics. Different guy.

So you know, there are just some people who are good at some things and other people good at other things, and so if I wanted to a consultant about politics, I would love to talk to Bill Clinton, but I'm not going to take dating advice from him, because he obviously has something wrong with him, because you can see the way he treats women. It's not normal. I don't mean to knock the guy, but everybody knows this already. Okay, so this is true for most people. You know most people like, if you look at Jimmy Page, jimmy Page was a genius.

If you look at the songs he wrote, he produced all their records. He selected those three musicians himself. We're talking about a brilliant guy. I saw him play Madison Square Garden for 20 minutes by himself. No band. Think about that. He was awesome. You have to be a genius to do that. The man was a heroin addict, all right. Again, I don't mean to criticize him, this is all known. But Am I going to take advice from him about whether or not I should use drugs? No, I'm not going to take his advice. But about music. Everything he says about music, I want to hear. He's very insightful In that area. So that's the way people are. So let me give you an example. Let's say you have a couple that's Talking about getting married, right? Wouldn't it be smart for that guy to know why this woman wants to marry him? I mean, wouldn't that make sense, right? So let's say he knows her. He's been going out with over two years. He thinks about it. This is yeah. I can see she wants around me because she loves me.

That's a good reason to get married, he says, great, let's get a license. But maybe he looks at the scale and he says you know, now that I look at this, I can see she's at level four. Level four is money motivated. She wants to marry me because I drive a Maserati, I have a 60 foot yacht, I fly my own Learjet, I live in a $10 million condo. That's a different motivation. Now he might say I don't want to marry a gold digger, I want to marry somebody who loves me and break off with her. And don't think he'll be upset about that, he will not. He'll be relieved. Boy, am I glad I got out of that, right? No, wait a minute.

I'm not saying that's true for everybody, because you know there's a lot of rich, unattractive, elderly guys with young, beautiful wives. How does that work? Right? So you have this 55 year old guy who's 50 pounds overweight, never was good-looking, even when he was young. Right, he's got $50 million in the bank. So he meets Miss Texas, who's 23. Right, they get married. The girl gets a diamond ring, a pearl necklace, a Fur coat, a Corvette and a credit card. So she's happy, the guy's happy, because he has a 23 year old wife. See, so for him, he doesn't care if she's a gold digger. Oh, you want $10,000 to go to Paris for Easter? Great, here's Thungrahan, have a good time, see. So for him it works. So this is all very personal. I Never tell anybody what to do about these things. I just get them to see what's there.

Some girl will say you know, I can see on the scale of sexuality, I'm at level three, he's at level four. Okay, I'm gonna help him move up to level three. See, she could get him to look at it and I'm not saying she should tell him look at it himself. And if he's honest with herself, so yeah, I see him in my level four. Okay, well, let's move you up to level three and then we'll have a better relationship. But let's say she spots that he's at level five. She might say I'm done with this guy, I Don't want to mess with this. Even if I get him to move up a little, he's still a level below me. We're done, goodbye, here's your ring back. Either way, she's gonna be happy, because it's the truth, and the truth makes people happy. That's why therapy works. The guy gets in therapy. He says you know, now I can see what really went on between my dad. You know, maybe it's not a pretty picture, but it's the truth, and so he's relieved. See, he understands.

So this is essentially the same type of thing, only all you need to do it is develop, because I'm giving you the yardsticks, I'm giving you 35 yardsticks. I'll me say something else. Some of these are general scales and some of these are specific scales, and what that means is, in a general scale, you find your level and you're done. On a specific scale, it's context-driven. So, for example, the scale of motivation Say what is my motivation toward my wife?

What is my motivation toward my son? What is my motivation toward my boss? What is my motivation toward my next door neighbor, etc. Etc. Could use this hundreds of ways. And then you can reverse the vector and say what is my father's motivation toward me, what is my mother's motivation toward me, what is my girlfriend's motivation? You see you're doing the opposite. So you could take this one scale and do a complete analysis of all the motivations of all people in your life, both ways, and Be greatly clarified as to okay, now I understand. This is why when I say this, he doesn't like it. But when I say that he does like it, tell me he's got a different motivation. So this is really helpful in dealing with people. It's good in Getting rid of the people who are down scale we're gonna hurt you if they, if you get involved and it's good in finding the upskill people who you want around you.

And again it could be the same person. Let me tell you what I mean. Let's say you have a car dealership and you need a new salesman. So you bring some guy in, you talk into him and you can hear and what he says that he's money motivated. That's what you want. You want this guy out there selling your cars. That's why you're hiring him. He gets a cut from everything he sells. He's gonna be out there pitching because he's a money motivated person. That's completely different from the guy who's saying I don't want to marry a gold digger because she's money motivated. You see, maybe the same guy owns a car dealership and he hires a salesman whose money motivated. Different context, same level. So this is very personal and that's how you use it.

So in a few brief ways. How do you think he's good they've been Applied to this? Or maybe a person who wants to go more into science or maybe scholarly academic venture? Just burn a few people out there. That might be interesting.

Okay, well, this is analysis of human phenomena. All right, it's not about hard science. I mean, look, if you're trying to Learn the theory of relativity, this is not gonna help you, it's kind of gonna do with it. That's Science. That's hard science. That's not what this is about. But if you're trying to understand, why doesn't my boss like me, why doesn't my secretary like me, why does my wife, one of the what? You can figure that out with this book. That's what it's for.

Why would my professor write me a proposal?

you know that's right right it's, you're not gonna figure out how to fix the engine in your car. It's not what it's about. There's a million books about those things. That's not what this is about. This is about people. Hello, if you said to me, jim, come to my house, I want to show you my garden, it's okay, james. So I come over to your house, right, and I look at your body and I see you've got tulips, roses Forget me nuts. I drain trees, pee-lees, violets, because I know flowers Right, if you bring some five-year-old kid in that good button, he's gonna see the same thing.

He's not gonna say that. He's gonna say, or, these are pretty and they smell nice. That's all he knows. Now. Most people are like that little kid when it comes to people. But I don't know what they're looking at.

That's why 37% of the German voters were voted for the Nazis in 1932. They didn't realize what they were seeing. We don't understand what they were looking at. If they had my book, they'd say wait a minute, this guy is destructive. Well, I don't want to vote for this guy. You see, who would have helped them? And, to be very specific, when Obama was running for president, most of us had no idea who he was, because he had only been in the Senate two years. He had this funny name. And who's this guy with his funny name running for president? So I said, well, I better find out, because I'm gonna vote and I want to know who to vote for. So I Conducted a septemic analysis of him. I, I listened to him, I observed him when I was able to determine his basic purpose. But what could possibly be more important than knowing some invasive purpose, so what the person is trying to do all the time, and so that that informed me. Well, I want to vote for him or not. So that's how you use this.

So this has been a very informative Inner. Now, if anyone wants to sort of look at these resources that, you know, jim has it's Septomics calm, correct electronics Tomexcom and Again, please look at his website, look at his content and please really focus on, you know, looking at this video, kind of reading his book, if you want to sort of get into this as well. So I Would like to thank you for being on the show. It really has been a pleasure. Are there any closing words You'd like to give to the audience?

Yes, just one sentence. I just want to say that the data in this book are vital for every person and Can help you to achieve your goals faster and easier by Explaining what might otherwise seem to be inexplicable or random.

Hmm, all right. Well, thank you again, jim, and I'll see you all next time.

Thanks, Jane I.