The Symphony of Mind, Mood, and Movement: A Holistic Path to Performance with Sal Jeffries

Hello everyone, I'm Jimbo Parris. Welcome back to the Jimbo Parris show. Today we have a special guest, Sal Jeffries. He's an instructor focused a lot on health, wellness and, yeah, we're going to learn a lot about him today. So, yeah, let's bring him on. How are you? So you know who are you?

That's a good question. So my name is Sal Jeffries, I'm a Brit, my field of work is about human performance and behavior. So I cover psychology, emotions and the body. So I look at these kind of three spaces. Traditionally when we think about psychology we've got mindset, coaching, how we think, all the mental structures, perhaps blending into more the therapeutic stuff, the psychotherapeutic arts. Emotions is in that space as well. But I also blend into the physical side of emotions, which is a breathwork and how we breathe, to how we feel, because our state is a physical experience as well as a mental one. And I'm very interested in how our body operates, how it functions in life and in business, so how our physiology is, from a muscle structure to the shape of our body, to our energy levels, to our mitochondria. So I'm also a strength and conditioning trainer and a very long time yoga teacher. So I look at the human system as this mind, mood and movement kind of triage and work with people in that context.

So what first got you involved in this field?

It's a great question. It goes back right to childhood. So I remember being seven years old like really young and curious about the world, curious about other people, other children at the time, and I never felt like I fitted in. I was always that person who saw things a little differently, didn't quite vibe with the crowd and I remember thinking I've got to work on myself to fit in with people, I've got to work on who I am as an individual. And I was a child In back. Where I grew up we didn't have any of this kind of emotional or psychological development. But I had a quest in me at that time to figure out how I roll, what makes up the human mind, the self, this feeling, experience of life. So that quest started really young, really young. It became a professional quest much more.

I've done many things. I've worked in advertising, that field. I run my own businesses in the fields of photography, had a very successful photography business for nearly 10 years. But the real trigger of shift happened when I got to my late 30s. I got involved with yoga and if anyone's practiced yoga, it's a fantastic discipline physically but it gets you connected to your body, so it gets you very much out of your thinking mind into your physical body and breath work as well. You can start to control your state. And I was a high functioning, probably high anxiety individual, super pumped, and learning how to control that state became an absolute gift. So that was really this big shift into all. Oh, let's, let's learn more. So I went on to become a yoga teacher. I've got fascinated.

I've retired from my photography business and some years in I realized at a classroom where I was teaching yoga and people would come in I'd be all stressed, we do a lovely practice, and they'd leave looking great, they'd feel great and I said, wow, they'd come back the next week looking stressed. And I don't think, have you not learned anything to apply? And I realized that a lot of the time we need to understand things psychologically. So, while yoga is a great discipline, understanding the mind, how we, how we literally think, how we see the world, is vital. So I applied to get into a what's got a postgraduate and a beyond degree level qualification in psychotherapy. That was a three, four year course and that was the basis of all the psychological work and then I blended that over the years to come with the body work and any more recent times.

Seeing how we breathe, seeing how a person moves physically, tells me a lot and helps us develop the human system really well. So many people look in the, I guess, fragmented areas. So you might go to your mindset coach for particular work and you might go to your PT for another piece of work. But if we link them you get this really powerful cohesive effect of growth. And it's it's not done so much, it's very much in our Western culture. We're very atomized. We got specialists everywhere and actually the generalist, the synchronous, the person who sees how systems work, actually, in my view, is the one that's taking things forward, certainly in the world of emotional health and personal performance, I think.

I remember the saying A jack of all trades is better than a master of one. You know, I think something along that lines. You know, it's a jack of all trades, not a master of one, but still better than a master of one. So it's some saying like that. But are you describing yourself as sort of a polymath, if you know what that term is?

I do know what that term is. It's I'd be careful to label myself a polymath, but it's toward that way of being I think the expression you're alluding to is. I remember it, certainly growing up, was if you're a jack of all trades, you're a master of none, because it was about if you, if you could do everything, you're actually not a master in any field, and I suspect there's some truth in that. So if you went to, you know, a cardiologist, they're really good with heart stuff. If you go to a sports scientist, they're really good with the data on sports people. Or a business coach, they're very good around business strategy and that's a place for them.

The problem I see certainly with human performance and the emotional space, like how do we think and feel into our world? Is that actually the human system? It's a brain, nervous system, fascia, muscles, biochemistry which creates all the, all the emotions and all the thoughts or the sort of subtle. It does work as one. So when we look at how human performance is, to look at it in isolation misses the fact that it works in systems and what I call an ecosystem effect. So there is absolutely a place for specialism. However, specialism can be isolated so it can separate things out and leave things out. The sweet spot is to look at both. So look at the whole picture and then go do I need to zone in? Do I need to work on one particular area more? And that's what I aim to do when we look at the mind area, the emotional area and the physical area. So there's a place for both.

Generalist, I think we can look at it used to be a bad term, Like if you're a generous to nobody, but I think a generous can hold space for a lot of things. It's a really skillful way of maneuvering through the world how you think, how you feel, how you act, and some people are natural generalists. So it used to be shot down is not a great thing. I actually think it's a really healthy thing, and it's one. To leverage a polymath Well, I love to learn, jimbo. I spend all my time. I really learn. The more I learn about subject, the deeper it goes. And, of course, I think the definition of a polymath is being an expert in multiple fields. It's all work in progress, but that certainly is the trajectory I feel is important for me.

I'm thinking back to when you were talking about also there being psychological aspects that might influence people to struggle. Well, do you think yoga can perhaps fix a broken worldview?

It's a really good question the yoga worldview and very much the Eastern worldview. So I practice a martial arts over time and had people who in my field are in things like Qigong and martial arts. I think that that Eastern view of collective and ancient and understanding from those arts and disciplines can really teach us a lot. There's nothing wrong with our Western scientific view. It has a great place and it's brilliant in so many ways. The problem is is there are a lot of issues in the world, you know, mental health issues, performance issues, climate issues and it would suggest that we're missing something. And if we take a complete systems view and see how system works and know that system had their own way of being, then I think there's a lot to learn from yoga.

I think it's a sweet spot to have the right mindset, whether you go to the gym or the yoga class, because if your mindset is, I'm going to learn, I'm open, I'm curious, there's stuff's going to come in, it's going to be good for you, or about your running your business, Whereas if you've got quite a closed mindset and that rigidity, that's where problems generally come up, because we get fixated like we believe this is correct or I don't believe that works.

And then we're not open, we're not adaptable. And the thing that intrigues me so we know about neurogenesis, which is the brain grown, your brain cells through cardiovascular training and learning. We know that the body can adapt. You go to the gym, lifts and weights, your muscles change If we create the right conditions. Our human mind, body system is an adaption system. It adapts to change. So if we get sweet and understand, like how does it work? What can I do to help adapt those changes, Then it's very, really powerful and it's yeah, you're for sure there's worldviews from yoga can help open us up. But any worldview that's different from our own, I think, is a healthy start to expand.

Interesting. So are there any weird therapy experiences you've encountered?

Plenty. I've been had my own experiences in therapy as me as being therapist, and I'm obviously doing my own therapy. I think the weirdest thing started for me was when my school of psychotherapy was looking to talk to the body. So if you're feeling anxious about something, perhaps the pervasive view is there's something wrong with your mind or there's something up with your mind. It's a thinking issue. And I remember my old master and she would say to me okay, and where's that in your body? Where's that connected in your body? Now I have a reasonably high level of kinesetic awareness, so I can feel my body. Some have more, some have less. But and that question I remember the first time I was asked it and I said yeah, yeah, it's not about my body, it's my thinking. And she was like, yes, but your mind is embodied. The brain and the nervous system throw through the body. All the connective tissues and the muscles have got information streams that go back to the brain. And there are people called Dr Ernest Rossi did a lot of work in this More recently, antonio Domazio. He's a neuroscientist, looks at the body, does something like a physical expression, like a sensation, along with how we think, and to start with it can seem a bit odd people asking you about what's happening in your body as you're dealing with a challenge at work, but actually there's a connection somewhere that your body is doing that. Once you get used to it, it's the most normal conversation. So, for sure, at the beginning, anything you can be alien to the human mind, human mind is like oh, I don't know that, so I don't like it, I can't trust it. It's a threat detection system kicks in, but it doesn't mean it's not worth knowing or worth trying, and I think that's why some of these weird and wacky things. Yes, I've been chanting, tried Reiki, all these various different modalities, and been curious. Something seemed to have worked. Acupuncture worked for me many years ago and other things haven't worked at all. So I think one of the interesting things is if the open mind is open, maybe something will be good for each of us. If we, if we give it a shot, how do you think people can have an open mind?

Safety, an open mind, is predicated. We need to feel safe. That's the first fundamental human need. If, if, if we don't feel safe and I'm talking mostly about psychological safety in our modern world, not a physical safety I hope for some, for many people. But physically we need to be safe full stop, but mentally and emotionally need to feel safe. It's a. It's safe for you to ask me a question or I'm into it, you know. So we're in a safe space and I feel okay, I feel safe.

If, for any reason, we don't feel safe, such as I might be judged, I might be humiliated, I might look silly, I might not know what I'm saying, so I don't want to speak up, Any of these natural human phenomena that we all have. If we don't feel safe enough, then we can close down, we we go back to what we know, our belief structure, our cultural upbringing, and then we're locked into an ideology or worldview. So, first and foremost, to shift worldview is how can we help a person feel safe? The I see you and I'll listen to you and I'll listen here what you got to say, as opposed to I won't listen to you and I'll shut you down. So creating safety is our first. I think if you're looking to help someone open the worldview, create safety. If you're wanting your worldview to grow, find safety, how do you think?

your seven year old self would view you now.

Oh, that's a lovely question.

The man who are.

He'd be fascinated. He would be fascinated. He'd be fascinated that Because the world that I grew up in I was born in the early 70s, so I've been around a long time and that future that was put out that I was going to live into and that should live into and do all these things. It's very different world now. It's a very different world. Some for some, some really good stuff about this new world we live in and some not so good.

I think he would have loved the fact that I've had to overcome so much fear. You know I was very much born around a lot of fear patterns in my life. My parents were born in the war, second World War. There's history and trauma from that. So there's lots of things that kind of carried through and as I've got older and understood how these things work, I've been able to face them.

And that sweet young kid I think he would have loved the courage I've finally been able to develop as an adult and I think we fascinated that. I understand the human mind and I generally love that world. Because that wasn't on the table at school. You know we learned the boring stuff maths, english. They didn't teach us like how do we, how do we think, how do we feel? You know, how does the world really operate? So I think he would be fascinated if he was to me, modern day me, about what I do and how I've, how I've had to overcome a lot of stuff. No, it hasn't been easy for me this life. It's been challenging in many ways and that's why I lead and I hopefully bring strength to other people and give gifts to other people of skill and knowledge, because they weren't there for me when I was growing up and I liked to impart that as much as I can.

Is it okay if we could go deeper into those challenges? Sure, so what types of challenges were you going through at that young age?

I would say the biggest challenge was feeling different, feeling out of the crowd, and I'm actually not feeling safe either. There was a lot of like um, rough kids. Where I grew up it says bully and um that kind of thing, and, as a quite a gentle kid who was into playfulness and dreamy style, was without one. As a kid, you know, loved all that stuff and then bashing people and getting into fights was not how I wanted to be, and yet that was a lot of them, the male environment I was in. So, yeah, I think being out of the group, unable to be part of this much more, let's say, quite aggressive behavior, this very traditional masculine behavior, was not only confusing, it was also quite scary, which meant I didn't know what to do. Why would shut down? You got to hide away, which we know in modern terms is the freeze response.

So when did you start embarking on your journey to this kind of Indian philosophy?

Well, curiously, I lived. I lived in a place for some time in my early thirties and they had a what's called a philosophy group and a bunch of people met up on a Tuesday night and they talked philosophy. I'd had always been curious about philosophy. I never had the privilege to do it at school. It wasn't what they taught at my school. I was going to a very regular school but I was always curious with philosophy. So I went along and what I didn't realize they were connected to. So it was called the London School of Philosophy and they connected to the London School of Economic Science and I've learned over time that they're actually closely connected economics and philosophy.

Certainly, this school and they use what was called a Dwight of Vedanta, which means in Sanskrit non-duality, as their basis, what they've kind of taught and shared, and they added in other things such as socratic thinking, all the kind of philosophical thoughts. But it was really based around an Indian principle about non-duality, because in our world, certainly in the UK where I grew up, there's a lot of duality. And this Indian principle about well, actually there's a oneness and I was like, oh, that's really intriguing. It sounds like the force from the Star Wars or the Tao, from Chinese or universal consciousness. There's lots of labels. We call this. You can call it the zero point field in quantum physics, but this connection really intrigued me and so I kept going on when every week and I went for eight years I was going to go for like a couple of weeks and just meet some local people and I went for eight years and that really was the start. So we got into the yoga. Yoga connected philosophy to some degree first and then after that I got involved in the physical practice of yoga.

But when we look at non-duality, it's very interesting about thinking that things have a connection at their root. So we were like male and female, for male and female energy, for example, yin Yang. Most people know the Yin Yang symbol Curious and often Western culture we say Yin and Yang as if it's two things and it's incorrect. It's Yin Yang, it's one thing with two different aspects or different polarities. So when we look at it through that non-duality, it's not Yin and Yang, black and white, male and female. It's Yin Yang, it's male, female or black, white, black, white. So there's this cohesion and I thought and this was a really beautiful understanding that helped open up my thinking around. Oh so maybe things aren't as separate as I thought. There's a lot of connection in our deeper way of being and that's a really heartwarming thing. You know, it leads to connection between people, between us and the planet and all these. You know all the connections as opposed to we're separate and we're different.

So if Indian philosophy was a soundtrack, what would it be?

Great question For me. It'd be something like melodic beats. It'd have rhythm, it'd have pulse, it would have layers and it would have continuity and it would have this kind of flowy, flowing nature to it, tribal in a way, perhaps almost into a trance-esque sound. That's how I would hear it.

So now that you sort of solidified your career, do you have any big client success stories?

Many, yeah many, so many of my people I've worked with coming to me with a stress issue, a problem issue. Normally there's something that's not working. They're stuck. Most people come to me roughly around the age of 40. It's a curious thing. There seems to be something around that time of life where people have an existential problem or existential question. They might have a job or they might have a business and they have a family, but there's something there's like an itch in the mind that's waking them up and it's like there's something up, there's something wrong.

And I had a guy not too long back and he was a successful media company owner, very dynamic business, certainly today as well, with a lot of media being, you know, just a powerful force, successful on the surface, you know, running a company, high net worth, and yet I'd carried this story from his childhood that he just wasn't good enough. And then the override in emotional pattern was high anxiety. Now, if he went to a regular doctor he would have probably been given a label of generalized anxiety disorder or some of these labels. There's a place for labels, but labels are static and anxiety is a dynamic thing. So it doesn't quite fit in my experience and we worked on the expression like what do you do with your anxiety? How do you breathe is the first thing. If I've got a person who's mouth breathing and upper chest breathing, they're in the stress response. If I can teach them the fundamentals about a nasal breath and a diaphragm breath, we are already changing the physiology of the stress response. Super simple changes so much. So we start them and then we unpack this person's journey and the narrative that they held was they had worked so hard to prove themselves and you know, some of the payoffs were well, you've got lots of net worth and you're really successful with your business. But this is the success was a little empty. They just didn't feel good enough or bad enough. So we did the deep work, the question around the story. So we got the anxiety pattern starting to come under control, start to understand the trigger of the anxiety, what at stake, what is threatening you, and then the more and more we got to that deeper level it was.

It's a really curious thing. It's about connecting to archetypes. So for this individual, the archetype of the father, and that relates it to his father and what his father meant to him. And it's not so much his actual father but the idea of the father that he's got to be this because his father said that. So when you live in one of these archetypal patterns, then you can look at those. That's what I look at. Are you operating from a victim, from a victim archetype? Are you coming from a savior archetype? And then look at the archetypes with gentleness and go is that, is that relevant today? Is it relevant in your business or in your family? And what's at stake? If you didn't do it?

So then we start to unpack. Um, it's a little like putting on different clothing. Yeah, you might have a clothing to go out and clothing to go to work. It's understanding the psychological clothing you wear and realize is it right? You know you wear gym wear to the gym, not to the business meeting. So it's the same with your mindset and that's the archetype you bring.

And the curious thing, the more we unpack this, this person went from being a highly stressed and he'd had stress, he said, since childhood into his early forties. So we're talking 30 plus years of an adult's life. It's caused him unending problems In a year. He course he has anxiety, it's a natural response, but he has an anxious response when it comes and it comes up and it drops away. We're done, he's on his way. Now I don't need to coach him anymore. And this person now is strong, he's self aware, he's confident and it's a sense of peace, and that is such a beautiful thing to have. Money can't buy a sense of peace. So, yes, and many people I work with have these, these, these chapters of life that we have to go and understand and then bring it up to date.

This has been an excellent interview. Thank you. To end this off, can you maybe give a pivotal transformation moment that you had that might help influence the audience here as well.

What I'd love to share is a very simple yet profound process that I invite my clients to do and invite you and your listeners to do. That really captures this philosophy and practice of looking at the mind and looking at our emotions and body as one system, and it goes like this so if you're, if you're listening now and it's safe to do some check him first and foremost with how you're breathing. It's the easiest. Go to. So start to notice how you're breathing. So both this tunes into our emotional state and our physiology, our physical body. So notice how you're breathing, feel the body as if your chest moves, your diaphragm moves, with the air coming in and out, and start to bring your attention and ask the question what's happening in my body? What do I feel and do I feel warm, achy, sitting on a chair, standing up where? What do you physically feel? Start to connect with the physiology of you, the muscles, the weight of your arms if you're just holding them up the feeling of your jaw muscles, your skin, feel your body. So what's happening in my body is question number one. As you start to connect with that, simply with interest, then you can start to connect with how do I feel emotionally. You might be stressed, you might be curious, you might be tired, it's all. Ah, that's interesting. That's where I'm at right now. This is how I feel.

So we're becoming self-aware and it's this witness consciousness. So, rather than I have anxieties, I'm having a hot feeling in my cheeks, my shoulders are tight and I'm starting to feel unsafe. It's a better description. So what's happening in my body, what's happening in my emotions? And then, lastly, go to your mind. What's happening in my thinking? Are my thoughts all over the place? Am I judging somebody? Am I judging myself? Am I just making? Am I binge? Thinking like thinking, thinking, thinking. Can I be interested in that thought process? Ah, that's interesting. I can even watch my own thoughts. How clever am I? Very clever, and this act of noticing, from physical, emotional to mental, can really really help get us present and into a conscious state such as you know I can relax a little bit right now, or I need to be strong because I've got a challenging event coming up.

I've got this. If you dial into those three spaces, take a couple of minutes. So much comes online because we are using the prefrontal cortex of the brain, we have connected all the neurons into the muscles, into the fascia, our breath under control and we start becoming conscious, present, open, human being. That's a really powerful place to come from. So I invite you, jimbo, and I invite our listeners today. Three questions what's happening in my body? Check that. What's happening in my emotions? Check that. And what's happening in my thinking. And when you've done those that I work through notice. I guarantee something will shift, because the act of noticing is an act of separation which gives us some skill and a lot of control.

All right. Thank you again, mr Jeff Priest, and I'd also like to thank everyone else for watching this show. I'll see you next time. This is JPT.